tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202685677414693804.post3460651509316882732..comments2023-04-17T10:24:33.779-04:00Comments on Robot Lovers Prey on the Lonely: ShamelessAnnabeth Leonghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07455191827664110878noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202685677414693804.post-66613284271944984762014-05-12T06:43:49.031-04:002014-05-12T06:43:49.031-04:00I find that a lot of supposedly female-positive po...I find that a lot of supposedly female-positive portrayals of sex turn out to be gender essentialist and shaming (i.e. women deserve and are supposed to want sweet, soft, romantic sex all the time). In my case, it was specifically about masturbation. So, so mortifying to have my mother talk about how she knew how much I'd been masturbating but had resisted saying anything to me about it. Um...<br /><br />For all that I have issues with that character, I think it's one of the things I liked about the story—there was a darkness to it all that felt appropriate considering the elements at play. And it totally makes sense that he's projecting his shame or perceiving people through the lens of it. <br /><br />Totally agree about shame as a positive force. I was driving through a town recently and saw a sign that said something like, "This is a hate-free zone," and I was intrigued and interested in the potential benefits of a community statement like that. Shame is so valuable for enforcement of community standards, but like so many tools, it's blind to whether it's being used for good or ill. Annabeth Leonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07455191827664110878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202685677414693804.post-11738998513813736292014-05-11T11:58:58.838-04:002014-05-11T11:58:58.838-04:00It's funny you said that about your mother; it...It's funny you said that about your mother; it kind of worked similarly in my case. She spent so much time on how sex is normal and what sex women deserve (gentle, nice, with lots of focus on her pleasure) when I realized what I liked it felt not only wrong but also distinctly anti-feminist lol.<br /><br />In the story, I really feel you for not liking him at this point though. I think because he's driven so much by shame and fear, and trying to deny it, that he dislikes these traits in others to an irrational degree. He was an interesting character to write lol.<br /><br />In general, I think there is shame as a positive force that works to keep communities together (i.e. we long for approval from our friends & family and hence avoid actions that will cause us to feel shame) but too often it's used to manipulate us into feeling ashamed of things we shouldn't have to feel ashamed of. Not sure that made sense lol.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00582948135976148603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202685677414693804.post-85072155504364691972014-05-11T08:37:09.571-04:002014-05-11T08:37:09.571-04:00Hi!
Fair point on the universal truth thing. He&...Hi! <br /><br />Fair point on the universal truth thing. He's an interesting character, and I generally liked him for his complicated relationship with consent. Despite her having asked him to burn the skin, he's uncomfortable with doing so, and that made me feel he was worthy of her. That line, however—I think it made me angry at him. Too many times, I've been around people who praised shamelessness on one hand but reinforced shame on the other, and this made me think of that. <br /><br />And then, I think treating it as more universal came because I was thinking about how that line would read to people. What about this fantasy is appealing? And part of what's appealing to me is the idea of being a mythological being who actually is without shame and being with someone who appreciates that. Perhaps because of the relationship of erotica to sexual fantasy, it's really difficult not to insert myself into a story in some way. <br /><br />It's interesting what you say about your mother. Some of the problem I think is that no one person can counteract all the shaming that's always coming at a person from societal standards. I've been thinking a lot about this and noticing how much I hear just on the radio, for example. There's also the problem of stepping out of one's own context enough to not instill shame. My mother (just as contrast, not as equation) says she tried to raise me free of sexual shame as well, but ironically one of the most intense experiences of shame I can recall is the time we discussed this, when she listed the things she had let me do without comment when I was younger. The implication, I think unintended, was that I should have been shamed for them, but instead she said nothing. I don't think she wanted to undermine her own efforts so badly, it's just that she had internalized so much stuff that she couldn't help letting it out right then. <br /><br />Anyway, thanks for commenting and discussing—happy to do it more. In case it wasn't clear, I loved the story. I actually had a long conversation with someone about why it works so well—it had so much unity, the way the symbols of the fairy tale served the erotic aspect and vice versa.Annabeth Leonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07455191827664110878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202685677414693804.post-56659933256870640642014-05-11T03:51:59.071-04:002014-05-11T03:51:59.071-04:00Aww you! I totally came across this by accident!
...Aww you! I totally came across this by accident!<br /><br />I don't think the quote is a universal truth though. It was a truth for that character's horizon, which is kind of a small, religious community at the edge at the known world.<br /><br />At the same time... yeah, of course it's true, too. My mother actually tried very hard NOT to instill sex as something shameful, but then I felt shame for being submissive, and when I accepted that, I still had my body to feel weird about and I assume there will always be something. <br />However, maybe it's not quite as huge a thing as the character thinks. I mean, he's far from a perfect person, and he may not like about her what he should like about her. Now I'm rambling ;). Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00582948135976148603noreply@blogger.com